Meeting God Deeper Through Birth with Stephanie Mudoti

Today we have Stephanie sharing her three incredible birth stories. Stephanie always knew that she wanted to be a mother and when she met her husband in China they both knew a big family was what they were being called to. 

Fast forward to when their time came, they navigated pregnancy loss and with the following pregnancy, a birth experience that left her wanting more. She shares the unconventional choices they made like changing providers and facility at the last hour as well as opting for a homebirth with her second for a better chance at a VBAC and care that suited herself and her family's needs. 

Stephanie's choices were drive by the desire to know God deeper and honoring her charge to raise her wonderful children. 

TRIGGER WARNING: Pregnancy loss is a part of her journey for anyone who is navigating the same experience or wanting to protect their mental space

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Hello and welcome to the Back to Basics podcast. If you're joining us for the first time, this is a podcast for anyone walking the journey of birth, parenting, and supporting those who are. In each episode, we come back to what matters most: honest stories by African women, trusted guidance, and the kind of community that helps you trust yourself. I'm Nicole and I'm so glad you're here. So take a breath because you're in the right place. Alright, so welcome Stephanie. Um, we have Stephanie here today to tell us her three birth stories, and yeah, they're very unique. Um uh as usually is the case, there's usually a V-back in there somewhere. But yeah, before we get started, Stephanie will just tell us a little bit about um herself and then we'll go into her pregnancies. Awesome. Um, my name is Stephanie, uh Stephanie Mudotti. I am married and a mom of three. Uh my first son is four, my daughter, the second born is about to turn three in December, and the third born is uh she's two, she's two and four months, and my fourth baby um is soon coming in a couple weeks. Oh nice so yeah, um I'm a lover of all things breath, um after having a very redemptive V back and uh a love of God, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

Yeah, okay, so maybe you can take us to your first pregnancy. How did you get to deciding you wanted to be a mom? Yeah, what was your journey like? Okay. Um, I think uh I've always wanted to be a mom. Have I? Yes, I have. I uh I met my husband when we were doing our undergrad in China, and I think when we were there being exposed to very many um missionary families who had multiple kids, I think that's really where I was like, oh wow, this is quite beautiful. My mum had always told me that you know she expects seven kids from the three children that she had at that time, and that sounded insane. Yeah, but I think going out there and seeing people from different countries and different cultures and just seeing how beautiful family is. Um, especially these are missionary families, you know, people who are doing um God's work together as a family and homeschooling their kids and everything. I just saw how beautiful um a family unit can be, you know, and how really multiple children just enhance a family experience and how um freeing also homeschooling can be. So I think just many different elements. So me and my husband really, because he's also from a background which is I think most of us Africans, the whole concept of homeschooling and home birth and all that is just very foreign. Um, which is sad because that really is like exactly that that was our norm. So um, so I think for us it really was like a huh, it was a challenge to be like, what if this is something that we can maybe do? So it was at the backpack of my mind. It wasn't even something that I was like set on this is how I want to do it. Because I don't think I had met anyone who in as much as we met all those families, no one had had a home birth or anything like that in China because there's a lot of medics around. So um there's a family that I really loved. Um, at that time I used to watch called Belief in Fatherhood, and uh his wife for her first daughter, she chose to have a home birth. Um, because it was her first daughter, and her first two experiences with her sons had not been the best, and here she was just set to have a home birth. And I remember watching her after her home birth, and she was like, That was the closest experience because they're believers in Jesus, and she was like, That's the closest experience she's had to God. She's never experienced like the supernatural the way she experienced it at that breath. And I was like, Yep, that's what I want. I was like, any day give me um a chance to experience God in a new way and in a deep way, I'm there. So that's when the thought of home births and everything started, and of course, me being very analytical mind and critical, I started like just digging deep into understanding what are home births, what are births at birthing centers, how does that look, and then also now coming back to look at like okay, my home country, Kenya, is that a thing that happens here? And then I came across um Eve's mama at that time, uh, who is Lucy Moshiri. How old were you now then? I was 24, 24, 25, and I was like, oh, so there is at that time she had a birthing center. So I was like, oh, okay, so there is a birthing center in Kenya. So I was like, okay, if I choose to give birth, I do want to do it in a you know, to have a home birth, and not even a home birth at that time, it was just having a go birth at a birthing center. Because I was kind of getting to the nuances of not as deep as I am now, but like just having a holistic birth experience, yeah. And so, yes, at that transition point is when I was like, okay, I can have then a big family. And we had had a conversation with my husband, and we're really both pro multiple babies, yeah. Having a big family at that time, I was like, I'm open to five, seven, six, seven kids. I'm open to that. Um, so yeah, have I always wanted kids? Yes, that was a transition to how we kind of yes, became parents and had now this desire to to have many kids, and which got challenged by the first one. So yeah, okay, yeah. All right, now take us to the pregnancy. So you said you wanted the birth center, yes. Yeah, what did your birth planning look like now when you're actually there? Okay, so we got pregnant to I mean, we got married December 2019 and then got pregnant right as COVID hit. So March, uh no, Kenya got shut down the day after my birthday in March. So so we were now living a completely different reality. And then I found out I was pregnant like a week later. And so um, it was exciting, it was really exciting. Um, being pregnant, of course, for the first time. Things were difficult because I mean the world was in a very different place. Um, I I was in aviation at that time, and of course, what that being one of the biggest hit industries, immediately there was a lockdown, flights got cancelled, aviation. Actually, we were told we couldn't go back to work right after I got pregnant, after I found out I was pregnant. So work kind of ended like that. My husband is not Kenyan, so even him, he was still trying to adapt to like what is work looking like. We were just picking up. He had come to visit multiple times. Okay, but first time living. First time living here, yes. Okay, okay. So he was also kind of finding out like what does a career look like, you know, income and everything for us as a family when we personally can't work. When one person can't work, and he himself is trying to figure out here because I had just we had just come like I think we had been here for about two. I had been in Kenya for like two years. So I was also just starting to work, and um, I I was away from Kenya for quite a long time, so I was also learning my country again, and so we were very new to to working and trying to build our family, and then the world kind of closed down. So finding out we were pregnant was a bit we had of course there was a lot of anxiety around it because they're like you're pregnant, but you don't know what are you gonna do, you know how you gonna build this family and everything. But we were, I mean, God is a big part of our story, so just trusting that if He's given life, you know, He's the one who sustain it. But I think our mindsets at that time, there was still a lot of I say honestly, presumption with like pregnancy and birth and all that, where maybe to within our hearts there was an entitlement to get pregnant, you know, and that things will go well. Um, and but then we I think we quickly learned that it's such a privilege to carry life and to not just carry life but to carry it all the way till you give birth and you are healthy and the child is healthy. It's it's such a privilege, it's not you can't be entitled to it. We are not owed that, you know. So shortly after, of course, initially we were gonna engage Lucy and everything, but I had a miscarriage when I was 12 weeks, just before 12 weeks. So that was uh shattering, of course, for me and my husband, very confusing. You're in the midst of COVID. My family was not here. They had gone to Merry, and of course, there was the lockdown of like county travel. Yeah, so I was with my best friend uh who's a doctor, another close friend of mine who's a doctor. So thank god he he kept me around doctors. So they were really they took care of me, and since there was nothing else we're doing COVID but being in each other's spaces, they were just with me the whole time. So, did you have the miscarriage at home or did you go to the hospital and then finish the birth process? I started bleeding um and then went to the hospital the day after and they told me it was a missed abortion, and they had told that's normally what they term it as. Yeah, like when they give you the medical report, they say it's a missed abortion. It's very interesting. Okay, yeah, the abortion is intentionally interesting. Yes, but that's what on the report they write that it's a missed abortion. It's very interesting. Oh, yeah, it's very interesting, and so they were telling me, okay, then you have to stay, we have to do the like the evacuation, like the evacuation of whatever is remaining, the contents. But I was like, okay, can we just pause? Everything is happening like too fast. So I was like, is there a danger if I leave here like this? And they're like, uh there isn't, but it was more so like they didn't want to be liable in case anything happens to me. Yeah, so I was like, okay, fine, then let me go home. I told them, let me go home, I'll come back tomorrow morning, and then we can do it. I was not planning on going back because I felt like really coerced to be there. So um we got a good gynecologist who was recommended to us, and I called the gynecologist, told him what was happening, and he told me, Okay, how are you feeling? Are you still bleeding? I told him how I was feeling. He was like, You have two options. Um, you can either get the I think it's called Mr. Prussol, which helps clear everything, or you can come in for an evacuation. So I said I'd rather be with um my husband and my people who will be monitoring me, at least my friends, um, and just take the Mr. Prussol and let everything pass. And did I take I didn't take it at that time. I think everything was still passing. And then I that was like I think three, four no three days where the contents were just passing. And I mean, of course I was going through the motions and then I ended up going for a scan where they checked the uterus and they were like, okay, there's no blood in the uterus, everything is clearing out. So things are they're looking, it's like there's no contents that have been left. But I think that n the that night what happened, it felt like there was uh one huge chunk that had to pass.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

I hope it's not here.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

One huge chunk that had to pass and it wasn't coming out. And my friends checked as doctors and they're like, okay, this can't come out. So what they have ended up doing is they called an ambulance. At that time, there was a lady who had started this initiative of um you could get free ambulances for moms, pregnant mums. She was a doctor where I can't remember the name of it. Um, but you could, if you were pregnant, you could call an ambulance for free and it would come and get you and take you to a hospital.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

How nice.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Very it was amazing. It was during COVID. So we called an ambulance, they came, um, took me to Arabia Hospital where they checked and they said it was just like I think the final contents. So that's when they gave me the missile prosel, which helped push the final thing out. And that was that. I was okay. So there was a healing journey, of course, to all that. Because I think that's really when I um it just dawned on me how privileged it is to get to actually get pregnant, to stay pregnant, to carry a pregnancy term, and then to give birth to a healthy baby. So now, um, yeah, so there was a healing process that we went through because that was around May. And then I ended up getting pregnant again by October. No, no, no, no, not October. Because that pregnancy was due in November. So I got pregnant the next year, 20. In December. I got pregnant in December. No, that same year, 2020, December. Because my son came August the next year, I think, if I have the date right or something. But I remember having a breakdown when the baby was due, I think end of October. And that's when because for me I thought I'm fine. Like, mm, my body's okay. Um, physically I'm fine, my periods came back, so I was like everything is okay. But I really didn't process. I didn't, I think my mind works logically like that. Yeah, I'm just kind of the story very matter of fact. Exactly. Where was it? That's how that's very much how I am. I think I'm very matter of fact and just like if it makes sense in the mind, like logically, then it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

And but then now it it um the whole experience also helped me really be able to now be able to turn on my emotions and present them before God. And I remember the Lord telling me, like, you're actually not fine, like your body is fine. You've been given the green light, but and your mind is okay because you've somewhat understood like um what may have happened because I was like just seeing the gynecologist like sometimes it's pregnancies, it's your bodies where maybe there was a chromosomal issue, the baby may not have been viable, just many things. So I think for my mind that made sense. For my mind that made sense. I was like, okay, logically that makes sense. My emotions I didn't know I had to be aware of them. So when I started breaking down at random places, that's why I was like, okay, I think I need to sit and process. And I was able to have uh a session with like a therapist, with my husband, and we were able to really process that. And then we got pregnant again. Um, so even when I got pregnant again, I don't remember having much fear, you know, because there's always that when you've had a miscarriage, there's uh the first time you see blood, you've probably gone to the toilet, wiped, and seen blood.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

So there's always that kind of like expectation at the back of your mind with the next pregnancy where you're just like, okay, is it gonna happen again? Is it got to 12 weeks? Is it gonna happen now? But I thank God that um now the pregnancy for my son went really well, yeah. And then that's when we reached out to Lucy. It went well, but I think everyone was just very a bit um cautious, yeah. Yeah, me being the first uh daughter, the first grandbaby, and my mom, like on my side, my husband's side, that was the first grandbaby, so everyone was just very aware. And um I know the people yes, I'm guarded, yes. So we met Lucy, the midwife. We had a sit down with her and talked about our options when it would start, when we'd do a home birth, what what what. But we just kind of decided to continue with our gynecologist at that time and go to the hospital. So that's I hope I've answered. Yes, you have. And I'm just wondering, because I don't know, like what what do you think would be good care for someone going through pregnancy loss, right? Yeah. So I feel like so many different hospitals handle it very very interesting ways, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:19

And yeah, just even the terminology, Mr. Abortion, is a bit wild. It is, and even I remember when because we were taken round and round in the hospital that we went to, because they weren't telling us anything. Physically, I'm just like no yeah, kind of physically, as well as they were like kind of avoiding us before they're like trying to say we're waiting for the doctor to come and tell you, we're waiting for the doctor to come and tell you, which I understand, fine protocol. Yeah, um, after the sonographer did the check and there was no heartbeat and everything. So when we finally got to the doctor, the doctor was like, I'm sorry, so it's a misdabortion, these things happen, but you can have another child. You know, it's like thanks, yeah, thanks, but I'm still processing that there's no heartbeat and everything. So I think um just I think that empathy. I think at that time someone just needs empathy and not for you to jump over it and tell them, No, everything is okay, everything is okay, you know. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I think it was that empathy, and also just the the space to allow someone to process and make and and kind of feel in charge of the decision. I think for me that was a thing because I felt rushed. It was like, okay, it's a misabortion. I mean, there was no heartbeat, we call it a misabortion, so you're having a miscarriage. So, but it's you'll be fine. People have many children after this. So, what we need to do now is clean out your terrace. So, we need to admit you so that you can do that. You know, it's like there was no chance to start processing. Um empathy. Um, so yeah, just being a bit more empathetic. Just being a bit more empathetic and allowing uh couples to kind of I think giving them because you you feel like there's something out of your control, right? Yeah, that you can't do anything about. So I think trying to give them empowering them with that, if they can, to be able to make the decision, even if it is to just seek a second opinion, yeah, even if you know the facts, just telling them, you know, you can seek a second opinion. I would advise maybe maybe within the next 12 hours. Of course, if the person is not in pain, if it's not critical and everything. But just being able to advise them in that way, give them the support. I think fill out every couple and give them the support that they need at that moment, or every individual, even if it's not a couple. Okay, all right. Yeah, it's just yeah, it's it's really tough. Yeah. Um, yeah. So maybe now you can take us to the birth. What what was your prep like? Yeah, how were you feeling going into the birth? What was it like? Um, yeah, so my pregnancy was very smart, very easy and say. Very easy pregnancy. I had a lot of energy. At that time, at least we were already, we had some work. So me and my husband were quite busy. And I kept quite busy, um, moving around, uh, doing a lot of things. Um uh at that time we were seeing a gynecologist and we had discussed with him, of course, our birth plan, which was we didn't want I didn't want any kind of intervention. I did want to go in the the base. I didn't really know much, you know, but in the bare minimum I re I I I knew that I wanted to kind of let my body do what it needed to do and go into spontaneous labor at the time it needed to. And he was in agreement until we were about 37 weeks. And then he brought up at our 37 week appointment, he brought up the that the option of getting induced. And I think it threw us off because we were like, Where does this come from? Where does this come from? You know, we've not talked about this. It sounds a bit for something to be brought out of the heart at that moment, it makes you question, you know, and makes you feel a bit insecure and unsure. And he was like, Um, well, yeah, we just need it's just an option for us to look into. Uh, because if I let every all my mums get into spontaneous labor, I may not make it for all of them, you know. Yeah, so I was like, okay, I guess. Um, so it was mostly like he was just kind of putting us on a calendar of like when strain was scheduling, yes. So we got to 38, 39 weeks. He was like, okay, I'll give you two weeks, and then 39 weeks you can come. And actually, I think I was even 39 weeks. That's why he was trying to place me in the calendar. And I think already I had been feeling very detached. He was an amazing gynecologist, really. He was nice, but I think I was there's a way I guess a mom wants to feel in that time where I don't know if I sound selfish, but we're allowed to be selfish. I feel like that time, I mean you're carrying lights where you feel like you just want to sit with someone and feel heard by them, and that they're giving you kind of all the time, you know, to listen to you and to what your needs or your questions and everything. Yeah, and at that time I felt like our appointments were just like, okay, we've come, nothing's wrong, nothing's wrong. Check the baby. Are you fine? Go get a scan. Scan is okay, baby is growing. See you next time. You know, oh no, get a your iron is low, buy some iron, get some prenatals, you know. So I was just like, I felt so detached, you know, from him. Amazing gynaecologist again, I'll say. And I feel like that's just the medical space, like he's seeing so many cli patients.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

He has to be realistic, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

With how what he gives, and I understand that now. Um, so when he brought up the induction matter, we told him, Okay, we don't want to be induced. So he was like, Okay, fine, I'll give you two weeks. That was at thirty eight weeks. So I got to like 41 weeks actually, and he called and asked me, So have you gone? He was supposed to I was supposed to go to uh Coptic hospital to now get booking and everything and when we went there I just felt very uneasy because no money was COVID time, it was 2021, August, end of July, August. The lockdown was still there. They were not allowing husbands um in the labor room. And I think for me, after going through the miscarriage with my husband and just seeing how we supported each other, there was no the thought of him not being there. I was just like, I can't do this. I can't do this without him. I can't. He's my support, he's my rock, you know, he's my support system. It's him I look to and he'll be like everything you'll be fine. And no, I I panic will leave me. So um, so when we went there for admission, and I was just like, I can't, I'm not seeing myself giving birth here. My husband was like, I hear you, so it's fine. So we really we pivoted at the last minute. That's good. At the very last minute, which everyone found crazy, but I mean that's kind of how the story of our lives. So um at at 41 weeks, he had a client in one of the businesses that he does who was a pharmacist who had just come back from the States, and they were setting up he he knew one of the um the people who are setting up a our hospital on Kembo Road. Um we live uh at that time we're living in Kerapon. That's on Gong Road. So Kambu Road is literally the other side of the world, yeah. And but then he went and checked it out, and it was new, new. Like at that time they hadn't even opened fully to the public, and then it was also COVID. It was brand new. Um, he met the head nurse and he had a really good experience. So he was like, then we should go there. So we went there for a checkup at um 41 weeks plus. I was nearly 42 weeks, and we met this doctor who when I had a checkup, of course. I wish and I think that's also something else. I wish gynaecologists would give their patients like their history every time they go, because I didn't have any history or anything of all the checkups I've done.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

I wish there was a report that they could send at that time. That was just into one. Maybe they do that now. I don't know. I don't think I don't think Kenyan hospitals give women their medical records, which is in general, very strange. Yeah, but anyway, maybe also I didn't know, so I didn't ask. So when we went to a R and saw the gynecologist, and he asked me how far along I was, I said 41 plus weeks, he was like, and he was like, You're just here, you're not how now? And you know, I I wasn't in labor at that time, and I was still okay. I was very much okay, just doing everything. Maybe his heart rate was good, my pressure was good, everything was okay. My iron was okay. Um, but of course he was panicked because also he was panicked or like I have no idea about your history, so I don't know. Maybe you may be exactly maybe you may be running away from someone who told you you have high blood pressure, and you're just here trying, and then you maybe you know you never know anything, and I understand. So he was like, No, this is critical. You have to come in for an induction tomorrow. So that was a Monday. So he was like, I was like, tomorrow. Yeah, and I think we're new parents, we are new, we're first time parents. So, of course, me and my husband are like uh we we that's what we didn't want to do. So we're like, okay, what about we come in like on Thursday or Friday? It's like no tomorrow is the day I'm available. Again, you know, just I think that walking around the convenience of a doctor, you know, which is just very interesting for me now. Yeah, so uh we went out, I was with my mom at that time, and of course, with the experience that I had with the miscarriage, all the parents and everyone is just very cautious. So my mom was very eager. Uh huh. What did the doctor say? Exactly. So when we mentioned, we were literally discussing it between my husband and I, you know, should we come tomorrow? So she's like, So you're coming tomorrow for induction? Okay, fine, that's what we're doing, you know. So, like, I'll be just like exactly. So it was like a whirlwind of a decision had already been made. Um as we were trying to discuss it and figure it out. So, um, so yeah, so the next day I got I went into the hospital. Um, it was a good experience because also it being a new hospital, they were not as stringent on the rules of having to have a COVID test because it was empty. Yeah, we literally were the only people in the world. Um, my son was a second child born there. There was he all the nurses were there for him and for me.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

VIP experience.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Literally, it was a VIP experience before VIP with a basic room because even during the because I got induced, um, I think I got two um suppositories, so what they call like inside the vagina, they put them in. Yeah, first one felt nothing, second one started feeling something it wasn't that intense. Wasn't that it wasn't that like intense even through the night and everything? Yeah, and the whole time it was two days. Um, my family was around, and my family is a big family, so when they came, there was like crazy. You're telling me you only have three sisters, yeah. But only three, I'm like we are only three sisters, but my cousins we are all they are my sisters as well. Yes, they're my sisters, so they were all there. So the waiting room had like eight people every day, like and they were there the whole day, yeah, not just like in intervals. My mom would wake up in the morning, come and leave before curfew, which was at seven at that time. Oh, I think nine, it had moved to nine. Yeah, no, actually, it was still seven p.m. So um I labored for about over 36 hours because after they gave me the two hesteries inside, they then put me on pitocin or oxytocin, either or, and that was now insane. It was the worst pain. Um, I felt like also the gynaecologist was just very discouraging because he'd come after he gave me the second induction, vaginal induction, he was like, Ah, Stephanie, here we're not doing anything. And had you done any birth prep before? I hadn't as well. I think I I just relied on what I had seen, having talked to Lucy a little bit. I don't think I had done as much birth prep at that time. I don't know if it I feel like it's also gotten really popular in the past two, three years. It has. Yeah. Just during COVID time, it wasn't. I feel like that's when many people are having post birth trauma issues, you know. It wasn't like, my guy, now we need to exactly. I feel like that's when it started picking up. There wasn't probably it was there, but maybe not as talked about as it is right now. Yeah, so um, yeah. So then after the induction, he came, got the pitocin. He was like, I'm just giving you one hour on this pitocin. To do what? To progress and to labor. If not, you're going for a CS. You're progressing to anything among just to like all the way. Because now from you when he was giving you the hour? Um, I was seven.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Oh, okay. Yeah, I was seven. What the pressure?

SPEAKER_02 29:11

Yes, and I'm and I couldn't move because they were monitoring the baby, I had to lie down on the bed the entire time. So it was absolute torture. Absolute torture. I really had wanted to have like a vaginal breath at that time, and I was like, I still can't do it. But after they told me I couldn't move, because of course moving would have alleviated the pain. They told me I couldn't move, I had to lay on the bed and you have one hour and have one hour. And they even brought in the pediatrician. This whole time they've been monitoring my son, and he is a champ. He's a champ. There's no point his heart rate dipped at any point through the induct through like over 36 hours. He was a good one. So what was their basis for giving you the hour? Um, just to get just for me, I think it was really that time of just like I think there's also a policy where someone can't be over two days in the hospital after an induction, like the baby has to be there, something like that. I think.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

So they didn't want me to get to the 48-hour mark. Um, so so then um, yeah, so he was like, I'll give you an hour on the pito scene, brought in the pediatrician, the pediatrician, and which is I feel like was a fair tactic of being like, Why don't you want to do a CS? At that time, I didn't want a CS still. Okay, so he's come to convince you to Yeah, and he's come with a pediatrician by saying, you know, your child may be um in danger, why don't you just want to do this? And now at that point, like also asking a mom at that point, I feel is unfair.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

It's really not her chance.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

Yeah, her choice. I'm not even there. Exactly, you know? So at that point, after the one hour, and then he said your seven centimeters and doesn't seem like anything is happening. I was just like, you know, take me to theater. Yeah, I was like, You don't take me to theater. I do not want to hear anything, just take me to theater. So yeah, went to theater. Um, baby came out, big boy, it was four kilos. Then perfectly healthy. Perfectly healthy. Little screaming baby. And I was, I mean, I had dilated to seven centimeters, and I feel like it's just after processing it later, I do understand like I just wasn't given the tools to be able to progress my labor as it should have been. I mean, I should have been walking on a ball, you know, doing different moves and everything, which would have helped him descend further down.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

He would have. But there was just no room for that. Because I mean, throughout even when I was trying to labor, there really wasn't I didn't know. It's not just the hospital's fault. I think that's why I'm also very much pro knowledge. Yeah. Like I need to know what my body needs, how to support it to be able to get there. So anyway, it was a very, very tough post pattern having labored for over 36 hours. By the time I was going to theater, I think I was getting to the 40-hour mark.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

You're exhausted.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

Exhausted, in pain, you know, having laboured, and then having had a surgery and now recovering from a surgery, I have this little human being with me who is on my breasts. He sleeps for 30 minutes a week. Sleeps for 30 minutes he's awake. You know, I think that was a shock of that night, the second night, because the first night I was in recovery. You know, the second night when the nurses left him with us, and I just fed him, he slept, I put him down. And me and my husband was like, Okay, let's sleep. Yeah, walking within one hour, he was awake, and we're like, wait, what is this? But already, and he was like that at the hour the whole night. So, yeah, it was a shock. So, me and my husband had to take shifts. So, I'm like, Okay, you sleep for two hours, I'll wake up. But even if you wake, I will you both bear exactly because I still need to feed him for the milk to come. So, yeah, it was amazing that at least my family could come. They were there, I think by the second day when they came to visit, there was like 15 people around, and this was COVID. And the hospital was easy because there was no other people around. Yeah, and he was the only baby in the nursery.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

At this point, the first baby who was born there had left. So, yeah, so then went home and recovery was rough. I say that I can't remember, unfortunately, the first like five months of his life. I can't really remember. I was on autopilot. I used to have anxiety when I'd see the sun setting because of the nights, because he didn't use to sleep well at night. He was up every single hour. No colic, nothing like that. Just chilling. Just chilling or screaming.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Because I go sleep.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

Even when you go sleep, he was with us. Because I spent seven weeks at my mom's and we were in the same room with him. It didn't matter. He was just and I feel like it was probably the tension that I experienced in breath and everything, and the anxiety that I had probably somehow got passed down to him, which it does happen to some to me to babies. So during the day he'd be chilling. He would be very okay, chill with you, take a nap on you, you know. He'd take naps during the day, mainly sneep on me. He wouldn't scream, he'd never cry, he barely cried, except when he was immunized and then circumcised. But it I mean, it's understandable.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

But during the day, he never he was very okay. But let the sunset, we had a very strict schedule of 6 p.m. every day. The dad would bath him, I feed him, he sleeps. So he'd sleep that fast two hours at eight, and then we start. So it used to give me anxiety, like seeing the sunset. And at that time, of course, um work had ended.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

And it's just the two of us.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

It's just the two of us. Where I would now start craving, like, where's my husband? You know, by the time 4 p.m. gets here, I would be expecting him to come back home. At least his work was flexible. So the first one was rough. My first my son was quite rough. And I think actually, that's at that point. My husband and I were like, Yeah, we are one and done. That is this is about there's no way we're doing this again. Of course, that became it was strenuous because of how I was. I was literally on survival mode. Yeah, that was strenuous on a marriage, you know, because I'm just focusing on this little human being, yeah, who is so demanding, who is taking everything. I was also at that time I didn't understand that I was in postpartum. Yeah, I had postpartum depression, anxiety. It's my sisters who have videos of him coming out of like being wheeled out of the theatre, his first couple of months. I don't have anything. I look I used to look at those pictures and be like, wow, I don't remember. I I literally don't remember the first like five months of his life. What happened at like month six to change things? Um you just feel like you just I feel like uh a fog started lifting. Also, um I think me and my husband were able to sit down and have honest conversations of where he was, like just be vulnerable with each other, where he was, where I was, what I'd been feeling, and just really started praying together. And that started lifting like a cloud off of me. Um, it started it felt like life started coming, and then he started sleeping.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

That was also a big part. Yes. I started sleeping like a normal person. I think on month six, seven, the first night he slept the whole night, and we woke up, and my husband were like, We are my dreaming? Yeah, he didn't wake up once, but it took a lot for us to get there for him to be able to sleep. It's like he was tortured at night. He'd wake up and just start screaming and screaming and screaming. And and unless my husband like prays over him or worship, like just please worship music and hold him, he won't go back to sleep. So seven months he slept through the night, and he till today is the deepest sleeper, deepest sleeper at night. So that also changed things. I think I started getting rest because I was the primary caregiver. And at that time, I had a debug who used to come, I think, once a week or twice a week. So just doing all that and handling that transition. Once a week is it's wild. It's wild, it's wild. Twice a week was also wild at that time because then you are figuring out everything else, and just being with you know, being with a baby and not having adult conversations, and then you're not sleeping. And then you have to like at the end of the day, you're thinking about how the houses are exactly, yeah. It's you, it's you, and then this baby's not sleeping at night. So it was it was quite yeah, it was quite wild. It was quite wild. So seven months, I think, like we had already started getting our rhythm and everything. So it started lifting, and I started feeling like my body was I was healing better, and I was a bit better, much better, yeah. Yeah, okay. Alright, well, how did you go from that to now deciding to do things differently for your second baby? Um, okay. So my second baby uh really what shifted is the fact that I got pregnant how many months was he? He wasn't one yet. Because I got pregnant by March uh 2022. February. So February 2022. And you gave birth that when he was 18 months, right? Yes, I gave birth. 16 months. 16 months. So he wasn't one yet. So of course, I was like already had the stereotype in fight. Yeah, of course, because I'm also like, I mean, we went to the hospital, they're like, okay, so you're pregnant now, stop breastfeeding your baby, just prepare yourself. Yeah, they told me that. You know, stop breastfeeding the baby that you're breastfeeding, and you need to prepare yourself for like said be ready for a CS again and everything. And at that time, I think because we'd already healed and were like, okay, we want multiple kids. I knew I'm not having a second CS. I I for the child amount of children I want, I do not want to have a it's not feasible. Um, so then we didn't have an option to go to but to go to Lucy. So we went back to Lucy, had a conversation with her, and my first conversation with her was um, am I able, do you think it's possible for me to have a V-back at 16 months? Is that too early? She was like, I've done earlier than that, you know. That's what she said. I've had mums, so it wasn't even about her, but she was like, I've seen mums who have had V-Bucks way earlier than yours. So it's it's not about the amount of time, it's about do you believe that you can do it? You know, as long as you have a healthy and strong pregnancy, yeah, you'll be able to do it. Yeah, so I was like, okay, that settled me immediately. I was like, okay, so then that's my path. And then also what happened also is that now in beginning to see Lucy, I was given the space to process my birth trauma by a midwife. You know, she really our I mean our appointments were like two hours long where I would just sit down with her and I'd be able to kind of burden myself and tell her like my experience and process it bit by bit, you know. And she'd be able to process it with facts, you know, and talk about I don't know if this was the best thing that was done. Not bashing the doctors, but just like even just factual information, acknowledging what happened and giving me factual information from WHO and this and the other, of this is what you uh had to go through. You had to go through being in the medical system, but this may not have been the best, you know. Just being able to process that and be had brought even more healing, and I think that's where now I started feeling empowered. Wait, I can do this, you know. My body was built to do this. If anything, my pregnancy proved that I'm strong. Yeah, because I mean, for my pregnant my body to carry my pregnancy all the way to that point, strong, healthy, not an issue. I was doing the wildest things, like the pictures I have because I didn't have like a baby shower, the no, no, like a what pregnancy shoot. What I call my pregnancy shoot is me between two pillars standing with my legs apart, and I think I was like 40 weeks at that point. So I was I was very strong. So I was like, I believe I can do this. So after we had like just in meetings with Lucy, I was like, No, I'm set, I'm not going back to the hospital. We're having a V-back at home. Okay, and um, where was your husband at? Because I know that's also a big challenge many women face, you know, getting their husbands or in-laws and or mums on board. Yeah, yeah. How did how did you get him to buy into this? Summer he was just like, Yeah, I saw what happened Yes, I think that was it. As well as faith is a faith is a very big thing between my husband and I. It's literally what's carried us to even be married in the first place is that um obedience to God is critical. So I think for him it really was like, okay. Um he was down with Lucy even before he had heard about it and he was open. Yeah, and just being able to analytically also listen to the information, hear the information, know the facts. I think that's also a big thing, yeah where men need to be able to just because they're mean they're more be open to hearing the facts, you know, and searching it out and not just be stuck in one way. Um, couple that with just faith, like we're not going through that again. I saw what my wife went through, and this worse. Yeah, we're not doing that again. That is not an option, yeah. And this seems to be something that's actually it's feeding her, like he was giving me life and he was feeding me, and him he went into prayer and was like, just like God, I need a solid direction of what it is. Yeah, so for him when he prayed and the Lord told him like it's Lucy, he was like, then tell me less. I just now I need to empower myself to know, and I think now when he started like learning the facts and everything, my husband is the biggest advocate for home births right now. Usually, dads who were once a bit ninety and then home birth. Oh my gosh, they're bigger advocates than the past completely, they would scream from the rooftops. They should do breath classes, actually. I feel like it would change a lot. It does completely be back, dads. Exactly. I feel like just seeing the trauma your wife went through and just a month process, yes, and you see the difference, it's just like wow, what it's a miracle. Yeah, it's night and you're freaking strong. Can you do that and then pick yourself up? Walk us to this journey so differently, and not it's not a hate like because dads are normally so helpless because they can't at that point they can't do anything, nothing, yeah. But to see, like, how I think that also was just so encouraging to him to see how my mind shifted. I think how my body shifted, and even during the birth, how focused I was. He was just like, yo, you're a legend, exactly. Literally, literally, he was like, Yeah, it could never be me. It could never be any man on the plan on the face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Y'all are just next to me. Yes, you are the stronger sex in that sense. So, yeah, so we ended up having a um I went into labor in December. Um, was I anxious? I think I was anxious just because I'd never had a vaginal breath. The past labor experience I had was horrible, but now I was able to experience what natural labor is like, you know, where your body paces you, you know, it's not synthetic. Um, it's not synthetic hormones which are working on your body, but your body paces you and everything. It was quite long. I think our labored Nicole was there. Yes, I was there. She was my doula with Lucy. I think I labored for only 12 hours. I think it was about 12 hours. Yeah, yeah. We came like in the afternoon, then we left early morning, yes. Around seven, yes, so it was about 12 hours. Um before then, because we slept. Yeah, oh yeah, you didn't because I gave birth like at 12 a.m. Yeah, 12 a.m., 1 a.m. there on the 13th, and then cleaned up everything. I went to bed, you guys left, then you left in the morning, and Nicole was pregnant the entire time. I didn't even notice. Oh, she was pregnant with your second, yeah, yeah. So it was amazing, it was such an empowering breath. I was scared, but I remember just Lucy. I think I was because of my first experience, you lean so much on the medic, yeah, to tell you what is going on, to inform you on how everything is happening and everything. And Lucy was very supportive, but I think at times I found it strange that she wasn't telling me do this or do this or do this. Yeah, the only thing she'd tell me is like I think at a time I was kind of detaching myself from the whole experience, so she started telling me to make certain movements in my pelvis so that the baby would like shift away from the station on the floor, yes, and then I'd get into the water, into the bathing pool, and my labor would delay. Um, so there were times where she did there. Is one time where she was like, Hey, snap out of it. Yeah, exactly. Locking. We are doing this now. She told me, Your baby's ready, your body's ready. It's you're stopping, yeah. It's just you, and I told her I was afraid of tearing at that time, and she was like, No, just your baby is gonna come, you know. So I think I entered the water at one point, and she was like, I went to the dilation station, the toilet. I sat there for a while, and I was like, Can I go back to the water? She was like, Not right now. So I went to diverted exactly. I went to the water because every time I'd enter the water, the labor would like really slow down. So I went into the water at one point, and then I tried to push, and I think I tore a little bit. So I panicked. You felt it? I felt it, like it felt like yeah, and then there was blood. So she was like, Come out, let me check. She checked, it was just a tear. After that, when I was about to sit back down again, she was like, No, no, no, get on the bed.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

Let's just get on the bed.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

And like 20 minutes later, the baby was out. So, yeah, it was very beautiful. Baby came out, she came out screaming, she was feisty, yeah, yeah. And I remember one of my friends who's a doctor, she was there, and at this point, my water had broken, and it was there was a bit of meconium in the waters, and she panicked. Yeah, and Lucy just told her no, totally fine. Yeah, baby's gonna be fine, you're calm. So I think it's only later that I realize. I mean, the stages to the the meconium amount in the in the how much they take in how much they take in, the position, I mean how far along the mum is to giving birth, all that later on. Which I mean, anyway, yeah. So, yeah, baby came, and it was the most empowering thing. Yeah, it was so beautiful to be able to like pushing pushing her out. Um, oh gosh, that was wild. That was very wild. I remember asking you guys to put like a cold compress. Yeah, yeah. I mean ice there when the the ring of fire came. Because it was I loved how Lucy guided me to do it. It was so easy, I'd say, because she literally just do like put her hand on my tummy and told me lift my hand with like my up muscles. Yeah, yeah. So contract your up muscles, and that will push the baby out. I was like, huh, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:08

So I'd do that and I'd feel the baby start to come out, you know, and then the baby's head came out, and then she was like, Stop, just wait, just wait. And I was like, Lucy, this is insane because that's now the ring of fire, and she's just telling me to hold it there. And she was like, No, no, no, no, just wait. If you like push, you might tear. So at that time, she was like putting a warm compress, allowing the baby to turn, and she just shot out after that. Your cousin was praying in the back. Yeah, she was praying in the back, and then Shalen, my my best friend was shouting the time, you know. And how my my my daughter and Charlene are like this now, like besties. She called her time of birth. So, yeah, it was quite different. I mean, it was a new experience. I've never I had never pushed a baby out, but I there was just so much adrenaline. And then, because it was a V-back, I think Lucy gave me a jab of pitocin to make sure the the placenta came out. She showed us the placenta, the side attached to the womb, how to check it and make sure everything is out. It was beautiful. And my husband, who's normally really grossed out, so chill. He was so chill. He grabbed the baby, put her on his chest, prayed for her. He was so in it, and then he was just so marveled by the whole thing. Yeah, I don't think he said much. I know he didn't, but he was in such awe of the whole experience. We both were because I mean, to finish all that, you guys cleaned up. Y'all are like miracle workers, man. Because I was like fairies. This is a lot going on right now in this room. We're like those fairies in Cinderella. Exactly. You don't know how or when. You don't worry, you don't worry about it. And you just kind of led us. I stood up the first stand, and like there was a gush of the usual gush of blood. And then y'all led us to my bed, put me in bed, fed me, put the baby next to me, and my husband laid back, and then we slept. I was like, wait, what is this? And then, of course, I was on a high though at that point. Yes, the sleep refused, because I was just like, What was that? That was like an adrenaline rush. I was like, now just playing it back, and then I started hearing myself just like the the exhaustion now landed. And finally now we slept, but just that awe of like wait, that just happened in the other room. I just came back. She's here, and we're here now, and we're here now, and she's here quiet. And the fact like just that golden hour, the baby, where they also sleep, like they feed, but like barely. Yeah, they just sleep, and we're in our bed. I was like, catch me going back anyway. After this, this was just this is magical. My gosh. I need an award not to go back. Yes, you need a pol I need an apology that I had to experience that, so there was no taking me back. There was no after that, there was no taking me back to the hospital. It's so funny. My mom tells me this every time I get pregnant, it's like I hope you go to the hospital this time. I'm like, that's unless I'm in an emergent situation. That hospital is not me. Even if that's what I say, I'm like, Jesus, you will carry me unless something is critically wrong, and that's not a bash hospital. I feel like it hasn't seen it. It's that understanding of like what they give. Yeah, what they give, as well as like there's there's people who have crit like uh pregnancies which need heavy monitoring. That's where that's why they should be in hospital, you know. Yeah, you shouldn't be like, Oh, I have too many women now. If I just let them exactly going to labor, no, it no, yeah, it's y'all are fine, y'all are healthy, your bodies will go to labor and they're going to labor. Find someone who has the capacity to support you, support you, exactly, exactly. But people who need the hospital should be there, you know. But now, every anyway, yeah, that's a whole lot of a conversation. So, yeah, that was my second. My third birth was I was postpartum with the second. Oh my gosh, it was I think because I was too excited. Now these are lessons that I learned later. I was too um quick with it in the sense of even my mom was in shock because she was around, of course, because the first birth I spent seven weeks at home with my mom being taken care of. Yeah, so she they actually the day two days before my sister had had her ratio in Meru. So immediately they had the baby came. My mom was in Nairobi by 6 a.m. Yeah. In the house. They they all came back. So they were home with us, and it was December, it was December 13th, so it was Christmas season. So we were together. My mum was in awe. She was like, Oh wow, you don't need me that much, you know, because she had to give me my first bath with after my first son. I mean my son, she had to bath me. I couldn't bath the baby because I couldn't bend. My husband was bathing him. But here I am, day days. Yeah, literally day four. I'm birthing the baby, I'm carrying the baby out of the room. You know, that movement. So I think even me, I was a bit too I was overzealous. Because I was like easy. Because I was like, wait, with a CS, I barely could do anything. Yeah, like even standing the first time, you feel like your body is split in half. But here I'm fine. This is my bits that hurt a little bit, yeah, you know, but I'm okay, you know. I don't feel like I have a core, but I mean it's just walking poly pole. So I was a bit overzealous. I even had left the house with a husband, I think on day five or six. Yeah, I paid for it heavily by day six, seven, yeah, but it still hadn't clicked like to really take care of my body. Um, so postpartum was good, it's just it took a bit longer, but it was easier, much easier than my son. My daughter was very vocal when she was in discomfort, it's slightest, and I remember when she was in my womb and I'd sit in a way that like cramped her, she'd kick me. That's her personality till today. Like to get her vocal and yes, yes, like you will hear me, even if it's the slightest thing. So she was vocal in that way, but she would sleep. She would sleep. We would swaddle her, she hated being swaddled. And the first time we realized that she loves sleeping on her tummy, she slept for like six hours straight. Oh, that was when I found out tummy sleep. Yes. I was like, You're like, wait, you've been hiding. Yes, and you're telling us not to do that actually, because of SIDS, right? I'm like, ain't no way. So I even asked Lucy, because Lucy now, after I mean the postpartum care also matters so much. Yeah, yeah. Because Lucy, the day you give birth, like I gave birth in the middle of the night, the next day she was home. She came. Yeah, I think two days after she came again. And as she's coming, she's checking my pressure, making sure everything is okay, and just listening to me. Yeah, and she does that for six weeks. Imagine. That is I never had that. Yeah. So she's able to pick up on everything and anything, any nuance of like me not being okay. And she knows you even before. Yes, she's known me before you the whole time. So it's that's as I'm saying, like wanting to be selfish and taken care of by a medic. I experienced that so much with Lucy. Yeah, and that made the postpartum like just so that's that's why even I was able to call her and ask her, is she supposed to sleep on her tummy? Is everything okay? She's like, Babies will sleep the way they sleep. If they're comfortable like that. Till today, my baby sleeps in her on her tummy. Yeah, yeah. I found it when I used to be scared with my first. Then I tried it with my second, I was just like insanity. Yeah, not with my third, because he was like, he's pretty good at moving his head. But one month I was just like put him down, yeah. On his stomach and his output, yeah, then with like the startling, yeah. They don't experience it. Yeah. So, yeah, so it was easier, it was so much easier. She was a feisty little girl, but much easier than my son. I think she slept with the night at like what three months. Wow, she started because we sleep train them um in our own way because we're very much um in their lives. I think uh we don't have like the typical nine to five, so we're able to be very present with them during the day. And normally it's my husband who does the sleep training. Yeah, it's not me. I do not have the heart for it. He's the one who kind of deals with them, carries them through it, encourages them, lets them cry a little bit, and then holds them. I think just that firm voice reassures them. And also, I don't know why they just listen to dad's. Of course they do. I'm just like of course they do. If mama is there, it's just like you you are here to hold exactly. Those are just suggestions. So he's the one who's trained all three of them and they sleep really well. Yeah, very well. They they moved, they had sleep associations, they have blankets now, which when they get tired, which is beautiful, I think, with training, is that then they know their own exhaustion cues where my kids will tell you I'm sleepy. They grab their blanket and they go to bed since they've been really little. So yeah, that was the second, the third, even better. It was quite quick. Got into labor. I like I feel like active labor because I felt like I was two centimeters two days before. I had a dream actually that wait you went to labor at 40 weeks both times. So Amaria was 41 plus actually I'm married and go into labor. My second one, I was 40, nearly entering 41 weeks, 40 weeks plus, and the third also 40 weeks. Yeah. So my baby's big fully. Big, fully, fully. So the third one I brought with a lady who ghosted her doctors and went into labor at 43 weeks. 43. Yeah, I love it. She ghosted. She just kept crying. I'm not going for your induction. Yeah. Come when the baby's ready to come. And the baby came. Yeah, and she pulled up four kilo baby notables. Very, okay. Smooth, efficient. I love that. I love that. Our bodies are very intelligent and they will let us know, I believe strongly, that when something is wrong. But then have we are we in tune enough to hear them? Yeah. I think that's the biggest thing because the agency of a woman is taken away and given to the medic to the point where they can't have the ability to hear. And I think we also want to give it away. Yes, yeah. Because it's a lot easier to be like, okay, this is a very important thing. Exactly. Let me use you. Yeah, you've done everything else. Let me just show up. But that's how a lot is missed, you know, because it's like, wait, I feel like my body was telling me this, you know, at this point. And I feel that's it was my agency that I feel like um having home birth has given me back the ability to, and that's why I love Lucy. She's not there to tell me what my body needs. And I think even she was with my third birth, she was even more laid back. Because like with my second, I asked for cervical checks. I think she checked me twice or once. I remember she was just like, Yeah, we don't need to check. Yeah, we don't need to, but it was me who wanted to know like how dilated I am. The third pr birth, she didn't check me once. Yeah. Not once. How long was your labor? Okay, we could go into the labor now. Um, I started labor, like I feel like that was active labor, like at around 1 a.m. Um in the night. So I did for an hour, 2 a.m. Told my husband to wake up. 2 3 a.m. is when I woke up my husband so that he could prepare the birthing pool for me and get the water and everything. And then the baby was here by 11 a.m. Nice. A very efficient. Yeah. So I called Lucy at like I think six, seven a.m. I was just texting my cousin, my family, and telling them, yeah, so I think I'm in labor.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

Then they all pull up. Of course. Lucy came at like 7, 7, 8. Yeah, 7. Around 7am, that's when Lucy showed up. And she was just sitting in the corner watching me, and I think that's why I mean all of beautiful midwives, because there's a way they read the body. It's just sometimes I'm advanced to it. And I'm just like, this is so cool. It's like a super, it's a supernatural like power. Yeah, I'm like, she just knows when to stop, when to be fine. Exactly. She knows when's a good time to go. Yeah. I'm just like, how? How do you know that? Yeah, it's literally magic. It's like you're a superhero, and that's your power. Because she would just and she the whole time she's just looking at me and staring at me and being like, okay, stuff. And then it got to a place now where she knew the baby was soon coming. She said, You wanted to give birth in the water? I was like, Yeah. She was like, Okay, let's now go to the water. Yeah. 20 minutes later. There you are. It's it it was wild. Yeah. But she was just watching me the entire time, hydrating me. It's hard for me to eat anything. I think in labor I've realized that. Yeah, food is a room, man. Even to drink anything. I'm a crook addict, just admitting it here. So during labor is when they are I have permission for my whole family to down. But like I don't even want it. When they bring it to me, I'm like, I don't want anything. I don't leave me alone to focus. So, yeah, so it was quite a smooth and quick process. I labored um in the morning on the bed. I was listening to these birth affirmations. I feel like at this point I'd really had a plan in my mind to really be very engaged um with my body and just kind of really talk to God through the whole process and let my body do what it needed to do. So when Lucy came, she didn't even distract me, she just like, hi, are you okay? Everything's okay. Checked my pressure, yeah, checked uh the baby's heartbeat and everything. She's like, okay, just continue. So I just continued walking, laying down, got in the water. My babies were there watching me. Uh then at one point I think I overheated because the water was really hot and my body was hot, so I had to get out, cool down a little bit. And then now that's when she was watching me, and she's like, Okay, so you said you want to give back in the water? She's like, Yeah, okay, let's go. I think it's time. So got in the water, and was your mom here for this birth? She was. My mom was there. Oh, she left the room at that point. My mom can be very like anxious. I'm her baby. All of us notoriously bad bath partners. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. I pray, I believe that I'll be different. So, but for her, she's always like, I'm not gonna be in the room.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:40

Yeah, and she always just tells us I'll be around.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:43

So she went, she was making food for everyone because it was a whole party around. But my sister, both my sisters were there, my best friend was there, my cousins were there. Um, yeah, everyone was in the room. There was a party, the room I was saying, we didn't even need a heater. We didn't need a heater in the room because of how hot it was because of the bodies that were in the room. So, um, so yeah, she came out. We thought it was a boy, we're convinced it was a boy. So, even in my birth video, everyone is like, he's right here, his head is out, he's right here, Steph. So his head came out. Thank god, and I think that's why I loved the water because I couldn't feel the ring of fire. I didn't feel anything at that time. I was really numb and really warm down there. And she came out and cold, she was still in her waters, covered. Yeah, she just popped out. My husband picked her, and he was like, It's okay. She didn't cry, she was just so quiet. She just made one sound, but she was just so quiet looking around, so quiet, big baby. She was bigger than my second. Yeah, um, looking around, um, everyone was excited, everyone was happy, and then again I met my best friend is the one who called the time. I remember her shouting the time. It was 1118. Shout out to her. I know I know, and then they started making bets on the wait. So this one was different because again it wasn't a V-back, so there was no need for the Pitocin job. And I think that was the part now where I started panicking where at placenta, yes, it wasn't coming out as expected. Because the first one came out like in 10-15 minutes, yeah. So here it took it was an hour of like the massage and the contractions were still there. So I was like, this is different. Yeah, the first one when Sasha, when my daughter came out, the pain stopped. Here, the pain is still there, you're like, something is something is, but it's just like the body's like trying to remove the next second breath, right? So I had started panicking, I was even kind of like lashing in panic.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:51

Yeah, were you feeling dizzy, or you're just feeling like the pain, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:56

I think it's when you're not in control of the pain, you start. Panicking. Okay. And I think that's what my whole labor I was very much aware of every contraction and breathing through it. But here, because I was like, This it's not happening, like it should have stopped. So I started like getting into my head and panicking. So I started like hyperventilating. And I remember the Holy Spirit. It's like Jesus was next to me. He's like, Why are you letting fear in? Calm down. Everything is okay. It's like he just checked me real quick. I was like, okay, okay, that's true. I'm making a bit dramatic. We're okay, everything is okay. So yeah, Lucy was just like, okay, come sit on the toilet. And when I sat on the toilet, it just whoop fell out. Yeah. So, and then I was now next on my bed just calling my cousins, telling because she was born on my uh my other niece's birthday. My other my niece was turning one that day, and she was born on the same the same day. So I was just calling and chatting people up as she was being carried around, yeah, put on the scale. She didn't cry at all. She was such a calm baby. And yeah, and then uh she was weighed, dressed up, blood pressure taken. Lucy, they did the usual. There was no blood in this because I didn't tear at all. It was a very clean breath. So they disposed of everything, did the usual, like little fairies, and I was put in bed. Nice, and I slept and done. Done done. Everyone went to the living room, they had a meal, they had the baby. The baby was brought at some point, and then they took her away again.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:28

After we had our golden hour, like it was just so easy. Yeah, so a part of your n your day-to-day life. Exactly. Just that I have my family around, which is like for me the best thing ever. It was a whole hangout with everyone. So yeah, no one can take me back to the hospital. I can't. I had my kids, they were there, they came, they saw their sibling, they were now playing with her in the living room. It was just so and we continue, you know? So just beautiful. Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Those are so beautiful. And now you're about to have your fourth. I'm about to have my fourth. So exciting. So exciting. Really excited about it. Um, again, just there's something about I always say, I feel like home birds have made me addicted to giving birth. It's like there's just a I just want to keep doing it. Actually, there was a podcast I listened to where there's a lady who was saying that they studied like a hormone that's released, and it's like the same DMT, it's the same um high that people who are on heroin get. Yeah, and ayahuasca, and yes, all of those stuff, all of that stuff. It's the same high you get when you're in labor. So it's like, huh, makes sense. I'm high. I um an addict. Yeah, I'm addicted. I'm addicted to birth. Because like, like three weeks, not even three weeks, two weeks later, I was watching my home breath. I mean, my breath. Yeah, and I'm like, I think I could have done this better. Or maybe next time exactly. I'm literally I have notes for me for future me. When we're doing it next time, yeah, this is what we're doing. Which people like I tell people, and they're just like, you know, we're there. We're a strange person. So yeah, so even with my now my fourth, I um I'm more settled. I think I'm just so at peace, I'm ready for it. Um, I think I'm at the transition point of trying to do it like Nicole, where I'm like, just be me and my husband. Yeah, you know, and we just do it, and Lucy can come after.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:28

Clean up.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:29

Exactly. You know, just check on me. And and actually, my mom had a dream Lucy wasn't there. My best friend Shaleen had a dream that Lucy wasn't there. So I told Lucy that she was like, okay, so turn to the husband and was like, so what I need you to do is be ready, make sure she's low on the ground or she's in the water when the baby comes, and then I always make it for the placenta. It may not make it for the baby, I'll make it for the business. For sure. Exactly. So, and I'm I'm not anxious about that because Lucy has given me my agency back. Yeah, you know, something you're dependent on. I'm not dependent on anyone else. I've been I'm dependent, I'm heavily dependent on God. Yeah, He has given me an amazing support system in my husband, and we can do this. Yeah, we can do this, and you have done it. I've done it, literally, I've done it in the presence of many people. So even now I'm like, you know what, it'll be me and my husband. I'll I'll probably call people and be like, the baby's here. Come see your husband. Come see your new niece or nephew. Yeah, but you still haven't checked the gender roles. I have, but no one is trusting after my dad's experience. I just like for you, we will know when the baby comes out. So, because like in my mom's dream where she dreamt, it's a different gender than the one that we we know now. Interesting, yeah. So we're like, you know what? As long as a healthy baby, yeah, we're good. Yeah, there's a midwife who says if God wanted you to see inside the womb, he would have put a little window there for you. That's true. Yeah, it's very true. Doing all these ultrasounds, all these things, but it doesn't. Yeah, it's notoriously wrong. Notoriously wrong, notoriously fear-inducing, anxiety inducing. It does not improve outcomes, it doesn't many times. So yeah, I'm I'm looking forward. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:22

I'm excited for this next free bag. Quick one.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:25

I'll be yes, I'll be here to tell it. Yay! So yeah, I'm I'm really hoping that it's also I I believe it'll be quick. Yeah, I I really feel like it'll be quick. Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing. Where would you say Steph now versus Steph Primum? Yeah, what are the differences? What have you noticed? Um in you that has changed, grown? Uh, I think the biggest thing is my more trust in God. I feel like then it was more lip service than it was an actual living reality.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:59

Like he's good and he's present. Um, the second thing is my um my strength. I know I'm strong. I know I'm strong. I knew I was strong then, but now I'm like I can do anything. There's nothing that Stephanie cannot do, honestly speaking. Because of the things that I've gone through and um just momming these babies, something that society tells you is like a loss of yourself. I found myself in the greatest ways. I found purpose in the greatest ways. My children have given me a purpose that I don't think I'd have I I didn't know, you know, before babies. I didn't know it was available. I didn't there are parts that I've accessed of my brain because of being a mom to these three children, yeah. And abilities and things that I want to do in this life that I didn't even know at all before any baby. But now they've given me purpose, they've given me purpose with the grace and the strength to fulfill those things very much, and I'm a lot more informed.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:09

I think I'm more of a critical thinker now because of my babies. You have to be like mothering makes you the best researcher in the world. So that's why when people start telling moms or just listening to it. Gaslighting moms, I'm like, you don't know how much she's been researching. And because I'm doing it with my whole life. I mean, these little people are my they're my life, you know, they're my heartbeats outside of myself, right? So even with it's made me a critical thinker, you know. Even in this world that now people call us conspiracy theorists, whatever. It's like, yeah, I'd rather be there. Because then let me be the one to find the balance and let the Holy Spirit be the one to lead me to balance. Yeah, but I will not trust men to tell me what balance is, you know, when they're profiting off of it. I saw a meme that said 2026 was conspira no, 2020 to 2026 is conspiracy theorists, like redemption architect. Yes, fully, yes, because we have come full circle, full circle, like just what we were saying has played itself out. I know, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it's made me a critical thinker. I thought I was a critical thinker, but I was a critical thinker within the box, yes, exactly. Like in my exact words, within the box, what you're told to think critically about, yeah, yeah. But now it's like no, no, no. Everything is open to scrutiny, everything is open, and it should be open to scrutiny, everything, especially when it comes to our children. Why should I not scrutinize what's what education system they're in, what they're being fed, yeah. Why should I not? You know, I've been charged, and I think also being a Christian and being a believer, I take it very seriously. Like God has charged me to steward these lives. So it would be lazy stewardship of me to just take what the world is telling me and input it to them. That's that's not proper stewardship. Yeah, I need to know this is what heaven intended for my children and walk accordingly, and that's where I find grace to be able to do that. So, yeah. Awesome. Thank you. You're doing so great. Thank you, Nicole. Yeah, I love that you want a big family. It's so hard to find nowadays. Things are different now. I was at seven at Max now. I'm just like, let's see where we go. Let's see, yeah. Let's see where God takes us. Awesome. It's a blessing watching them grow together. Ah, there's no fulfillment. Yeah, like that. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, okay. Do you have any last tips, words of encouragement for someone who's yeah um about to go through birth again or for the first time? Um for the first time, I'd say uh know God because I think birth is a very spiritual experience. So know God and understand that you've been given a holy charge. I call it a holy charge to be able to carry a pregnancy all the way. And with that holy charge, it will give you the unction to gain information and gain knowledge on what is best for you and your baby. Yeah. And don't stop because you're being told to stop learning. Don't stop because you're being told to stop learning. But um, yeah, you know what's best for your baby. That's why God gave you this charge of the baby. Um the doctor knows what's medically best, but you know what's holistically best for you and the baby. Yeah, um, second time or third time or fifth time, seventh time, mom. Trust yourself. You've done it before. God has given you again, it's a holy charge. He's done it again because he trusts you, and he's given you that baby because you are the best baby for this mama. I mean, you're the best mama for this baby. So trust that, you know, trust that you have everything that it needs to mother this child, to bring this child to this life, and to care for them. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you, Nicole. Thank you for being a part of the journey. Oh, I'm so honored. Could not have done it without you. The first time you could have. I could have. Amen. It's just better. Yeah, it was better. It was encouraging. Yeah. Just seeing the fact that, and even you being there and just telling your story of how you did it. Free breath. I was like, wait, I'm not that crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:21

Yeah, that's a level of crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:23

Yeah, she's here. That's the level of crazy I'm attaining to. Yeah. So let's make the first step. I'm gonna get there. Oh, I'm gonna go. I will. I'm not far. Yeah, I'm gonna be. I see you as a midwife in the future. Yeah, I I am passionate about breath work, so it will pull you. Amen. It will, yeah, it's a drug. Yeah, it pulls you when my time is done. I'll be like, So I want to see all the babies being. I need to be there. I need to be there somehow. Somehow, talk to them and just feel that life. Yeah, yeah. Okay, awesome. Thank you. Thank you guys so much for listening. We shall see you in the next one. Bye. That was amazing. And that's a wrap for today's episode. If this conversation sparked something in you, share it with someone who needs to hear it so they can feel a little more confident and a lot less alone. We would love to hear from you. So leave a comment and follow the pod so you don't miss any new episodes. We're building a community and we'd love for you to be part of it. Until next time, take care of yourself.